you get your response yet? I published it
in the Guestbook of
Secularislam.org site and also here.
can find the transcript of all our correspondence
in my site.
From: "Usman Malik" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Subject: A major policy change
Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 17:27:46 +0500
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Again some questions.
First of all, you must trust someone. it is
not something needed to
understand religion but, it is necessary social
need. If we donít, then we
will be trapped in different things like how
you will be loved everyone, why
are you on ignore list of people and so on.
A simple example is of teachers.
Without trusting them to be right, you will
never learn to even write this
what you are doing now. You have to trust
them until you learn how to make
others believe you (off course with your knowledge).
But even then this
trusting part remains necessary as you question
on their basis.
Now next thing is that I donít believe to
be child of God. I think if He is
my creator then He is my master not my father.
I think that few people used
this term to become holy and gain control
over each and every life form.
This also served to them as licensee to do
what ever they want to. Then you
said that sending a messenger to a corner
of the world doesnít make sense.
But well what do you think; there were neither
any global television
networks, nor any Internet.
Religion is based on faith and faith needs
no prove. Following our parentís
religion isnít the biggest question. Abraham
left his fatherís religion and
asked him to do so, but his father didnít
agree and asked him to leave. Just
imagine Abrahamís this act, in a place when
his father used to make the
Now Ali, again about doubt and confusion,
which are two names of one thing.
If people fall in confusion they look for
solution (just like me). Then they
find someone or something (in my case you).
Then some limits themselves
while other continue their search (what I
did). But sometimes the people who
have fell in the confusion try to interpret
the thing they donít like in a
completely new way, which is necessarily not
right (like you).
When you criticize the religious scripts,
you first talked about worshiping
cattle etc, ok. Then of Muhammadís miracle
of splitting moon, which is
proved by some scientifically, but about ďVudooĒ,
I never heard. Now how can
it be scientifically proved that one parted
the sea? Sorry water is not in
talking terms with us, or humanís would have
asked it all about it. About
Noah it is scientifically proved that Earthís
water level was way much
higher and it has tremendously lowered. For
just info addition, you know how
petroleum is produced underground? Youíll
find interesting links of it to
Noahís Ark and flood story.
I can talk about Miraj, and can talk on its
scientific aspects too, but it
will just increase the length of the e-mail.
If you like me to tell you more
about it, do let me know.
I donít agree that doubt is way to knowledge.
I think that it is need that
is path to knowledge. Until you donít need,
you have no questions, and even
if you have you would ask. Galileo questioned
the traditional astronomy
because he felt the uneasiness about accepting
them, therefore he felt a
need to investigate himself and let everyone
be aware of it.
Sorry again, but have got some objections.
Truth is the easiest path; it is
the straightest path. Following it, you never
need second thoughts, and you
never have to make sure out of anything.
Then you said that we all are created equal.
By the way, by whom the
creation you are talking about. You have often
quoted me things already said
by Muhammad. Islam first introduced the equal
creation phenomina. Please
avoid such, as you donít believe on them.
And again you said that we need no
guidance from any human. But as far as my
study suggests, first itís your
parents whose guidance you want, like how
to walk, talk, sleep and act. Then
its teachers whose help is needed in studies
and so on. Or simply our life
is filled with guides. And have you ever seen
a guide at a museum or at a
historical place, you must consider them as
You believe in science, and there is a term
in biology called cells. They
are the most unit constituents of any living
being. Long before it was
proved to exist, it was accepted even then
to exist, therefore, some people
believed on a theory while some had faith
on it. Then due to modern
equipment scientist actually proved their
existence and bang, it became a
fact. But what do we get, a fact was widely
accepted when it was even theory
and just mere belief and faith of few? The
cells when were believed and even
before that, didnít just ran away or vanished,
and returned when they became
fact. They were there as before, but just
they were not visible. The same is
applicable for Jinn.
in that Ayah, the penetration from the regions
of the earth mean to
fly. Penetration is not natural for humanís
like for the birds. By the
heaven it means ďGravitational SphereĒ. Going
beyond it doesnít causes the
gravity to finish but it becomes so less that
even can be neglected. This
region is 400 miles above the surface of the
Earth and is also called
Penetrating through the earth: Today we see
helicopters and airplanes
flying. What they do is that they push the
air down, causing a resultive
force, pulling them up. When a helicopter
starts to fly it donít do it
immediately, it takes some time, until the
speed of wing rotation gets fast
enough to push them up. And the airplane taxi
on runway before take-off to
get enough engine speed, enough to support
their weight. This speed required
is called escape speed. This is specifically
defined as ď the required force
by a material object to escape through the
Gravitational fieldĒ. Same is
with the mechanism of rockets, meant to take
war heads, or to the trip to
And just for addition of info, the escape
speed from the earth is 11.2
km/second, for moon 2.38 km/second, Ceres
(asteroids) 0.64 km/second, for
sun 618 km/second, for Sirius (white dwarf)
5200 km/second and for a neutron
star it is approximately 200,000 km/second.
Now just re-compare what Allah said and what
the modern science says. Isnít
this the scientifically prove of this Ayah,
that Allah asks man and jinn to
escape if they can, all the vain it will be,
if they do it with using
still want to hear about your definition of
Rational thinking in detail,
not a line on proving doubt and confusion
to be the solution to all of our
problems. I also want to discuss the single
principle but sorry, the article
will just got lengthier, or too lengthy.
Ok you sometimes exaggerate. And why are you
using Santa Clause too much,
letís leave the old man alone J. Ali, El and
Il theory was intrusting but as
you said it was myth then I just like reading
them and thatís all. Just like
one of Ram and abduction of his wife.
To me life becomes cool as it is meant to
be when you starts to believe. You
start believing in your family, in your friends
and ultimately in the end
even on your self. Ar-Razi, IbnSina etc, will
indeed be known around the
world for good but Bukhari and Muslim, I donít
think that they did anything
bad. They were like us, they questioned Allah
and Muhammad, and lucky they
that they learned to believe. And donít worry
I donít like Mullahs of
Afghanistan. I donít even consider them Muslims;
they are some one in there
own category. Their hands are filled with
blood of many innocent people. But
you said, Islamís glory will fade. I think
it is reverse; Islam is the
worldís fastest spreading non-Christian religion
(according to Guinness Book
of World Record).
Ok! I donít have much knowledge of the Bible,
but I have read the Old
Testament. Also do you know where online I
can find Joshua?
Also I want you to discuss Quranic Ayahs with
me, ask me about anyone you
like, I will be able to satisfy you.
At one place you answered my question and
said that we might never find
answer to our questions as you arenít certain
about it. But how you can ask
others to follow you when you arenít sure
about it, yourself.
As you talk about scientific reasoning too
much, do you know that you donít
only have to prove some theory wrong experimentally
but you also have to
present/submit you own alternative solution
or the corrected theory. And
most common example is Hutchison Effect.
A question for you: DO YOU WANT A SECULAR
WORLD? OR DO YOU WANT THE
RELIGIONS TO MODIFY?
At another place in article and at your website
you talked about abusing
Women under Islam. Come on, these are just
illiterate people, or people who
are under the influence of those people who
ďmisuse religionĒ do so. In
Islam, if some one finds his wife to be of
bad character he is asked to
leave her, and if he has to punish her it
shouldnít be harder then hitting
with MUSWAAK. And we all know MASWAAK doesnít
Ali now a major change in policy announcement.
I have decided to discuss all
this with you in a new way, as I have found
a way to put an end to my
confusion. I have decided to discuss from
now on as a Muslim, while you do
as you want. We will discuss on the policy
of ďconvince or be convincedĒ. In
the end if I convince you then you might join
Islam again and if you win
then vice versa. This will result in long
term satisfaction on both sides.
I hope that you agree.
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