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Sat, 09 Jun 2001
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His Reply:

From: "Ali Sina" <afreethinker@hotmail.com> [Save Address] [Block Sender]
To: islami@consultant.com
Cc:
Subject: Re: A major policy change
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 08:18:55
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Dear Usman

I decided to publish our correspondence so others can also learn about it.
Please find your answer in this link and also you may write back to me in
the same Guestbook. Scroll down until you come to June 9

http://www.secularislam.org/guestbook.htm


Take care,

Ali Sina

From: "Usman Malik" <islami@consultant.com>
To: afreethinker@hotmail.com
Subject: A major policy change
Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 17:27:46 +0500

Hi Ali,
Again some questions.
First of all, you must trust someone. it is not something needed to
understand religion but, it is necessary social need. If we donít, then we
will be trapped in different things like how you will be loved everyone, why
are you on ignore list of people and so on. A simple example is of teachers.
Without trusting them to be right, you will never learn to even write this
what you are doing now. You have to trust them until you learn how to make
others believe you (off course with your knowledge). But even then this
trusting part remains necessary as you question on their basis.
Now next thing is that I donít believe to be child of God. I think if He is
my creator then He is my master not my father. I think that few people used
this term to become holy and gain control over each and every life form.
This also served to them as licensee to do what ever they want to. Then you
said that sending a messenger to a corner of the world doesnít make sense.
But well what do you think; there were neither any global television
networks, nor any Internet.
Religion is based on faith and faith needs no prove. Following our parentís
religion isnít the biggest question. Abraham left his fatherís religion and
asked him to do so, but his father didnít agree and asked him to leave. Just
imagine Abrahamís this act, in a place when his father used to make the
idols himself.
Now Ali, again about doubt and confusion, which are two names of one thing.
If people fall in confusion they look for solution (just like me). Then they
find someone or something (in my case you). Then some limits themselves
while other continue their search (what I did). But sometimes the people who
have fell in the confusion try to interpret the thing they donít like in a
completely new way, which is necessarily not right (like you).
When you criticize the religious scripts, you first talked about worshiping
cattle etc, ok. Then of Muhammadís miracle of splitting moon, which is
proved by some scientifically, but about ďVudooĒ, I never heard. Now how can
it be scientifically proved that one parted the sea? Sorry water is not in
talking terms with us, or humanís would have asked it all about it. About
Noah it is scientifically proved that Earthís water level was way much
higher and it has tremendously lowered. For just info addition, you know how
petroleum is produced underground? Youíll find interesting links of it to
Noahís Ark and flood story.
I can talk about Miraj, and can talk on its scientific aspects too, but it
will just increase the length of the e-mail. If you like me to tell you more
about it, do let me know.
I donít agree that doubt is way to knowledge. I think that it is need that
is path to knowledge. Until you donít need, you have no questions, and even
if you have you would ask. Galileo questioned the traditional astronomy
because he felt the uneasiness about accepting them, therefore he felt a
need to investigate himself and let everyone be aware of it.
Sorry again, but have got some objections. Truth is the easiest path; it is
the straightest path. Following it, you never need second thoughts, and you
never have to make sure out of anything.
Then you said that we all are created equal. By the way, by whom the
creation you are talking about. You have often quoted me things already said
by Muhammad. Islam first introduced the equal creation phenomina. Please
avoid such, as you donít believe on them. And again you said that we need no
guidance from any human. But as far as my study suggests, first itís your
parents whose guidance you want, like how to walk, talk, sleep and act. Then
its teachers whose help is needed in studies and so on. Or simply our life
is filled with guides. And have you ever seen a guide at a museum or at a
historical place, you must consider them as wrong, right??
You believe in science, and there is a term in biology called cells. They
are the most unit constituents of any living being. Long before it was
proved to exist, it was accepted even then to exist, therefore, some people
believed on a theory while some had faith on it. Then due to modern
equipment scientist actually proved their existence and bang, it became a
fact. But what do we get, a fact was widely accepted when it was even theory
and just mere belief and faith of few? The cells when were believed and even
before that, didnít just ran away or vanished, and returned when they became
fact. They were there as before, but just they were not visible. The same is
applicable for Jinn.

Prove of Gravitation:

Here in that Ayah, the penetration from the regions of the earth mean to
fly. Penetration is not natural for humanís like for the birds. By the
heaven it means ďGravitational SphereĒ. Going beyond it doesnít causes the
gravity to finish but it becomes so less that even can be neglected. This
region is 400 miles above the surface of the Earth and is also called
ďMicro-gravity ZoneĒ.
Penetrating through the earth: Today we see helicopters and airplanes
flying. What they do is that they push the air down, causing a resultive
force, pulling them up. When a helicopter starts to fly it donít do it
immediately, it takes some time, until the speed of wing rotation gets fast
enough to push them up. And the airplane taxi on runway before take-off to
get enough engine speed, enough to support their weight. This speed required
is called escape speed. This is specifically defined as ď the required force
by a material object to escape through the Gravitational fieldĒ. Same is
with the mechanism of rockets, meant to take war heads, or to the trip to
the space.
And just for addition of info, the escape speed from the earth is 11.2
km/second, for moon 2.38 km/second, Ceres (asteroids) 0.64 km/second, for
sun 618 km/second, for Sirius (white dwarf) 5200 km/second and for a neutron
star it is approximately 200,000 km/second.
Now just re-compare what Allah said and what the modern science says. Isnít
this the scientifically prove of this Ayah, that Allah asks man and jinn to
escape if they can, all the vain it will be, if they do it with using
sufficient force.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I still want to hear about your definition of Rational thinking in detail,
not a line on proving doubt and confusion to be the solution to all of our
problems. I also want to discuss the single principle but sorry, the article
will just got lengthier, or too lengthy.
Ok you sometimes exaggerate. And why are you using Santa Clause too much,
letís leave the old man alone J. Ali, El and Il theory was intrusting but as
you said it was myth then I just like reading them and thatís all. Just like
one of Ram and abduction of his wife.
To me life becomes cool as it is meant to be when you starts to believe. You
start believing in your family, in your friends and ultimately in the end
even on your self. Ar-Razi, IbnSina etc, will indeed be known around the
world for good but Bukhari and Muslim, I donít think that they did anything
bad. They were like us, they questioned Allah and Muhammad, and lucky they
that they learned to believe. And donít worry I donít like Mullahs of
Afghanistan. I donít even consider them Muslims; they are some one in there
own category. Their hands are filled with blood of many innocent people. But
you said, Islamís glory will fade. I think it is reverse; Islam is the
worldís fastest spreading non-Christian religion (according to Guinness Book
of World Record).
Ok! I donít have much knowledge of the Bible, but I have read the Old
Testament. Also do you know where online I can find Joshua?
Also I want you to discuss Quranic Ayahs with me, ask me about anyone you
like, I will be able to satisfy you.
At one place you answered my question and said that we might never find
answer to our questions as you arenít certain about it. But how you can ask
others to follow you when you arenít sure about it, yourself.
As you talk about scientific reasoning too much, do you know that you donít
only have to prove some theory wrong experimentally but you also have to
present/submit you own alternative solution or the corrected theory. And
most common example is Hutchison Effect.
A question for you: DO YOU WANT A SECULAR WORLD? OR DO YOU WANT THE
RELIGIONS TO MODIFY?
At another place in article and at your website you talked about abusing
Women under Islam. Come on, these are just illiterate people, or people who
are under the influence of those people who ďmisuse religionĒ do so. In
Islam, if some one finds his wife to be of bad character he is asked to
leave her, and if he has to punish her it shouldnít be harder then hitting
with MUSWAAK. And we all know MASWAAK doesnít hurt.
Ali now a major change in policy announcement. I have decided to discuss all
this with you in a new way, as I have found a way to put an end to my
confusion. I have decided to discuss from now on as a Muslim, while you do
as you want. We will discuss on the policy of ďconvince or be convincedĒ. In
the end if I convince you then you might join Islam again and if you win
then vice versa. This will result in long term satisfaction on both sides.
I hope that you agree.
Wishes
Malik Usman


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